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Michael Listner, Sunday, 12-1-13 December 1, 2013

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Michael Listner, Sunday, 12-1-13

http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/2133-BWB-2013-12-01.mp3

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Guest:  Michael Listner.  Topics:  Space law Review for 2013.  Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com.  Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm.

We welcomed Michael Listner back to the program for this space law review for 2013.  On The Space Show blog at the end of the summary, you will find two presentations uploaded at Michael’s request.  In the first segment of this 1 hour 57 minute discussion, Michael said it was a fruitful year for space law and policy.  He suggested that the paradigm changer was private space development, at both the state and the federal legal picture.  He talked much about the Outer Space Treaty (OST) which provides the legal basis for the U.S. to exercise control over its citizens launching anything to space anywhere in the world.  This subject came up in reference to Mars One and some statements Michael made regarding there wanting to go elsewhere to avoid Dutch law.  Michael explained how the OST presents the Dutch government with the same obligation for its citizens around the world as is the case with the U.S.  Michael then brought us current with the European Code of Conduct, current modifications, and the impact it might have on U.S. space entrepreneurs and launchers such as SpaceX.  He talked about how regulations get enforced as law & how they would make the voluntary code legally binding in our country.  We talked about the need to get an FAA launch license for private companies and how that might be unavailable depending on regulations and political issues.  For a government mission, there is no launch license requirement.  This point was stressed when using SLS for Inspiration Mars came up for discussion.

In the second segment (note we had a phone interruption so there was a short additional break though most of it was edited out), there were several email questions and comments regarding Tito’s recent Inspiration Mars congressional testimony and what it might mean for space law issues if the mission became a NASA project.  Allen asked a question about state law, specifically in California.  Michael explained the relationship between state and federal law in space matters.  During the discussion, Michael referenced many papers by different authors applicable to our discussion. Here are the links to those papers:  Henry Hertzfeld & Scott Pace: http://science.time.com/2013/11/28/hands-off-our-lunar-landing-sites-not-so-fast; National Space Transportation Policy:
www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/national_space_transportation_policy_11212013.pdf; Established Practices for Human Spaceflight Occupant Safety www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/national_space_transportation_policy_11212013.pdf; Space Review article on commercial spaceflight self-regulation: www.thespacereview.com/article/2252/1; FAA decision: www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-12-02/html/2013-28405.htm.  Our guest talked about these items during both segments of our show, stressing the geopolitical component.  Near the end of the program, we talked about laws to protect the lunar Apollo landing sites and artifacts.  In his concluding remarks, our guest stressed the need to play by the rules.  Such rules may consist of state, federal, and international laws and regulations. Michael also talked about Bigelow Aerospace and his lunar cots like program suggested with NASA.

If you have questions/comments for Michael, post them on The Space Show blog. You can reach Michael through his website at www.spacelawsolutions.com.

Relationship of space law with traditional law

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John Batchelor Hotel Mars, Wednesday, 7-24-13 July 25, 2013

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John Batchelor Hotel Mars, Wednesday, 7-24-13

http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/2056-BWB-2013-07-24.mp3

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Guests: John Batchelor, Michael Listner, Dr. David Livingston:  Topics:  The legalities & issues regarding asteroid and resource mining in space.  You are invited to comment, ask questions, and discuss the Space Show program/guest(s) on the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments, questions, and any discussion must be relevant and applicable to Space Show programming. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are not permitted without prior written consent from The Space Show (even if for personal use) & are a violation of the Space Show copyright. We do not permit the commercial use of any Space Show program or part thereof, nor do we permit Space Show programs to be edited, placed on YouTube, or other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted in news articles, papers, academic & research work but must be cited or referenced in the proper citation format. Contact Dr. Livingston for questions about our copyright and trademark policies which we do enforce.  This program is archived on The Space Show website, podcasting, and blog sites with permission from John Batchelor. Please visit the John Batchelor Show website for more information about this fine program, www.johnbatchelorshow.com.  Remember, your Amazon Purchases Can Help Support The Space Show/OGLF (www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm).

During our 11 minute plus discussion, John, Mike Listener, and I talked about the legalities of asteroid mining, resource usage in space, potential issues such as profit sharing, treaty constraints, liability, and government regulation.  I believe Michael summed it up well when near the end of our segment, he said that this type of activity was still possibly 20 years away and during that time, the legal issues should be addressed and hopefully resolved.

Please post any comments/questions you might have on The Space Show blog.  You can contact any of  us through drspace@thespaceshow.com.

Michael Listner, Monday, 5-6-13 May 6, 2013

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Michael Listner, Monday, 5-6-13

http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/2003-BWB-2013-05-06.mp3

Guest:  Michael Listner.  Topics:  Space debris issues and ideas for solutions.  Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information.

We welcomed Michael Listner back to the program to discuss space debris and Apollo artifact issues along with his ideas for possible solutions to the debris problem.  On The Space Show blog, you will find three of Michael’s Space Review articles on the subject plus his Power Point slide presentation at the end of the blog summary statement.  In addition, Michael had an article in the current Space Review on the preservation of Apollo historic sites. For this article, see www.thespacereview.com/article/2290/1.  In the first segment of our 1 hour 44 minute show, Michael offered us his definition of space debris and pointed us to his slides which I urge you to have available when listening to this show. Again, his slide presentation is uploaded to the blog for this program and is the last item of the uploads.  He summarized the space debris issue as both legal and thorny!  After defining debris and the issues using the first few of his slides, he talked about other issues including ITAR, property rights, technical, and even national security issues.  Listeners asked him several questions, mostly focused on LEO as that is the most crowded region at this time and the priority for debris mitigation.  CubeSat issues came up given the potential debris problem should the cubesats manifest in the quantity talked about and planned.  We talked policy issues and different strategies as suggested by China and Russia.  We also talked about weapons issues and dual use for the military as well as for civilian use.  Michael went over Transparency Confidence Measures (TCMs) instead of new treaties and mentioned the proposed Russian/Chinese treaty, PPWT, which does not have wide support in the UN.  Late in the segment, Michael talked about the OST and the definition of a space object. We also talked about space salvage compared to ocean salvage. He told us to check out Project Azorian www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nukevault/ebb305) (but did not tell us what this was.

In our second segment, Michael wanted to focus on solutions & he offered us some of his ideas on the subject. Still referring to his PPT slides.  One suggestion was to offer limited liability to third parties or those working to mitigate a debris issue, similar to what many of the commercial spaceports are doing with the suborbital spaceship companies and manufacturers.  He talked quite a bit about the proposed Swiss concept for debris mitigation which he liked very much. Michael wrote another Space Review article on this concept last year which you can read at http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2032/1.  Toward the end of the program, we talked about the need to preserve the Apollo landing sites as historical sites and some of the issues and challenged faced in doing so.

Please post your comments/questions on The Space Show blog. Michael can also be contacted at michael.listner at spacesafetymagazine dot com.

Legal issues surrounding space debris remediation

Addressing the challenges of space debris, part 1: defining space debris

Addressing the challenges of space debris, part 2: liability

Addressing the challenges of space debris, part 3: policy

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Michael Listner, Tuesday, 11-27-12 November 28, 2012

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Michael Listner, Tuesday, 11-27-12

http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/1902-BWB-2012-11-27.mp3

Guest:  Michael Listner.  Topics:  Space law & policy review for 2012.  Please direct all comments & questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments & questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright & are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. We welcomed Michael Listner back to the show to do our first ever annual review of space law issues. Michael had several topics to discuss including the Code of  Contact, Transparency & Confidence-Building Measures (TCBMs), Cube sat regulation, ITAR, Planetary resources & space property rights, Space debris with an emphasis on EnviSat, Austria’s space law in particular the launch of Austria’s first satellite in December, Commercial space in particular limited liability laws, Delineation of air space & outer space, the Moon Treaty & the ascension of Turkey & Saudi Arabia, Rules of Arbitration, & the preservation of Apollo landing sites.  We started with two main space law issues of 2012, the European Code of Conduct & TCBMs.  Michael did a good job explaining the history of these items, where are today with them & what is likely to happen with them in 2013.  We also talked about space taking on the role of being normal & we both pointed out ways in which it interacts with regular law even if consumers are behind a firewall & have no awareness of space law issues.  Our discussion turned toward benefit sharing & this took us into an extensive Moon Treaty discussion. I urge people not blow off what to many of us are radical departures from how we have been conducting space affairs & how we want to see commercial space evolve.  There are longer term potential risks given trends in benefit sharing, more countries signing on to the Moon Treaty, & even listener feedback I get right here on The Space Show.  Michael urged us to pay attention if other nations sign the Moon Treaty, particularly if Russia or China agree to it.  Michael talked about legal theories that can make the Moon Treaty enforceable given it is a legal treaty, even if the U.S. & others do not sign it.  Again, I urge our audience to not discount this potential longer term risk.
     In the second segment, Michael talked about the issue of just where space starts.  He mentioned two theories on this & why it is an important issue. The U.S. position tends to discount the debate & operates as if the 100km point is the edge of space.  It appears we abstain from the debate with the opinion it is a settled issue but evidently not in some circles as it is a hot button issue.  We also talked about the limited liability laws for suborbital space, especially in New Mexico which is having a problem accepting it in its legislature.  We mentioned the potential impact limited liability might have on Spaceport America so it deserves watching.  Michael talked about cubesat regulation & an upcoming European conference on that subject.  He said it is something we need to be carefully watching.  ITAR reform, especially in terms of getting satellites off the munitions list to the dual technology list was also a key issue for the year & will be next year.  We also talked about space debris issues & the impact of ESA’s EnviSat.  As our program was ending, I asked Michael for some future 2013 assessments of hot button issues.  Among those he mentioned included the Code, TCBMs, ITAR, possibly the Moon Treaty & Planetary Resources types of issues.  A listener asked about our withdrawal from the OST but Michael did not think that would mean much. Our last topic dealt with the historical preservation of the Apollo 11 & 17 landing sites.
    Please post your comments/questions on The Space Show blog.  You can email Michael at michael@spacelawsolutions.com.

Michael Listner, Monday, 1-2-12 January 2, 2012

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Michael Listner, Monday, 1-2-12

http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/1681-BWB-2012-01-02.mp3

Guest:  Michael Listner.  Topics:  National and international space law issues including property rights, the Moon Treaty & more.  You are invited to comment, ask questions, and discuss the Space Show program/guest(s) on the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com.  Comments, questions, and any discussion must be relevant and applicable to Space Show programming. Transcripts of Space Show programs are not permitted without prior written consent from The Space Show (even if for personal use) & are a violation of the Space Show copyright.  We welcomes Michael Listner to the program to discuss national and international space law issues and related matters.  We started out discussing the new Austrian domestic space law and inquiring of our guest why we should take note of this Austrian law here in the U.S.  As you will hear from Mr. Listner, the new Austrian law relates specifically to the UN space treaties and plays a role in international space law.  Our guest wrote a recent article on this subject in The Space Review on Dec. 12, 2011.  You can read his article at www.thespacereview.com/article/1988/1.  Another interesting article of his you might value is in DefensePolicy.org from July 7, 2011 and titled “TCBMs: A New Definition and New Role for Outer Space Security.”  You can download it at www.defensepolicy.org/2011/michlis/tcbms-a-new-definition-and-new-role-for-outer-space-security. Our discussion then focused on launching country issues and liability, satellite operations in different countries and both the Liability and the Registration U.N. Conventions.  This discussion led us to talking about the European Code of Conduct for Outer Space Activities and Michael updated us on the status of this voluntary agreement, both on the international front as well as here in the U.S.  Other issues discussed in this segment included space debris and the Draft Russian Chinese Treaty On The Prevention Of The Placement Of Weapons In Outer Space (PPWT).  We also talked about the Chinese GPS system covering Asia, its military focus, and Chinese geo political intersects.  Michael then introduced us to Transparency and Confidence Building Measures (TCBMs) as alternatives to treaties. This prompted several listener questions and comments about “so called” government transparency, the word of governments, and their effectiveness so far.  This was an interesting discussion, especially when I asked our guest for his personal opinion on these types of agreements.  Space tourism became a subject and we spent some time on the liability issues and the states that have passed liability protection laws for the space companies.  Jack from Virginia was listening and provided us with important information about the Virginia law which he largely authored and which has become a model for the laws in Florida, Texas, and New Mexico.  We spent the rest of the first segment talking about liability and space tourism issues. In the second segment, Helen asked if funding levels for NASA and space interests correlated to up’s and downs in space policy.  As you will hear, most policy is driven by politics, not funding levels.  There were lots of questions about the legality of the Moon Treaty and its applicability to commercial space, even Google Lunar X Prize contestants.  We fielded questions on lunar mineral extractions as well as messing with Apollo artifacts on the Moon.  We then jumped over to property rights and what this actually means regarding space issues.  As we were nearing the end of our discussion, I asked Michael if space law was largely an academic field or if it was becoming a career choice field in terms of practical application.  He said it was becoming more and more practical and more and more schools were offering commercial law classes.  If you have comments or questions for Michael Listner, please post them on the blog URL above.

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