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Space Show Audition Program, Tuesday, 10-16-12 October 17, 2012

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Space Show Audition Program, Tuesday, 10-16-12


Guests: Dr. David Livingston & Audition callers. Topics: This first time ever Audition show had a variety of topics per below. You are invited to comment, ask questions, and discuss the Space Show program/guest(s) on the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments, questions, and any discussion must be relevant and applicable to Space Show programming. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are not permitted without prior written consent from The Space Show (even if for personal use) & are a violation of the Space Show copyright. We do not permit the commercial use of any Space Show program or part thereof, nor do we permit Space Show programs to be edited, placed on YouTube or other private channels/websites/publications. Space Show programs can be quoted in news articles, papers, academic & research work but must be cited or referenced in the proper citation format. Contact Dr. Livingston for questions about our copyright & trademark policies which we do enforce.Welcome to our fist Space Show audition program. Most callers talked about their projects to earn a place as guest on the program. We received email questions from listeners for the caller. Tell us on the blog if you would like to hear a specific caller as a guest on The Space Show. John was our first caller regarding his concept for a Two-Stage-Tether-to-Orbit program.  I’ll upload his two PDF documents to the blog, both of which explain in detail what he summarized on air. Doug was next to talk about Cislunar development around lunar ice at the poles, a moderate heavy lift such as the Falcon Heavy, propellant transfer and depots, and depot locations along with cargo transportation. Doug was asked about markets for his concept which he said might include satellite servicing. When asked about his time line in a “perfect world” supporting his concept, he suggested about 11-12 years. He also talked about a lunar settlement and his Lunar Cots Petition (www.ipetitions.com/petition/lcots). Andrew in Tucson was the next caller, encouraging people with ideas to assemble a garage type tool shop to learn to make simple parts of the hardware supporting their ideas. He talked about tools going back to WW2 & the ’60s as being valuable & important today. He explained why he was encouraging people to learn to do at least the basics of building their project components which would help obtain financing & spur the interest of others. He will soon have some of his videos on YouTube so search under his name for more on his idea, “Andrew Tubbiolo.” Jeff from Tucson called next to talk about taking a holistic view of space programs/projects such as SLS. He talked extensively about the need for solid rocket propellant per SLS & made the case for NASA being an integral part in our national security via its use of solids, space projects, etc. He stressed the holistic broader view over a more narrow view brought up by listener emails such as cost, economics, etc.

Our much shorter second segment started with a call from Armen who talked about the interstellar roadmap which could change the way space projects are financed.  He talked about financing being the bottleneck for space projects, then explained how the Fed creates money, debt/credit relationships, and how something like QE3 could be replaced by putting the $40 billion in one month toward space companies per the roadmap. The roadmap by Star Voyager was discussed. You can obtain more information from the Leeward Space Foundation (www.leewardspacefoundation.org). For specifics, www.leewardspacefoundation.org/id32.html. Our caller then talked about the International Space Development Hub (ISDH) at www.isdhub.com. ISDHub has proposed NASA Ames transform Hangar One at Moffett Field from a parking space to a space business hub. For details, see www.isdhub.com/about-us.

Place your comments/questions on our blog. Let us know who you would like to hear as a guest on The Space Show. You can email the callers through me.

Here are the two tether articles referenced above and from the first caller discussion:





1. rocketscirick - October 25, 2012

I enjoyed Andrew’s comments about hacker/maker spaces. I probably differ in approach, but agree with the overall spirit.

For David’s benefit, I suggest taking a tour of a couple of places. There are such places in San Francisco. But if you come down to the NASA Ames and Silicon Valley area, I’ll take you to a couple of my favorites.
* Hacker Dojo, Mountain View, CA — http://hackerdojo.com — a community-based hacker space, primarily oriented toward computing and electronics.
* TechShop, Menlo Park, CA (and other places) — http://techshop.ws — a for-profit maker space with lots of *really* *expensive* tools, including hand tools, normal machine shop tools, AutoCAD stations, CNC machines, 3D printer, etc.

If you want to do San Francisco, there is a TechShop there as well as a hacker space known as Noise Bridge.

2. Andrew Tubbiolo - October 17, 2012

In response to the gentleman from Houston asking about amateur engineers and machinists banding together to create space systems. Yes indeed if enough people who are interested tool up and co-ordinate efforts that is just what you can get. And it would be really cool.

Instead of waiting decades for someone else to institute your space program for you, why not tool up, and make as much as you can yourself? If you’re a fan of space travel, development, and settlement, I highly doubt you’ll be sorry if you tooled up and started exploring what you could with what you designed and made yourself.

Joe - October 17, 2012

Andrew, you are ABSOLUTELY correct!

This tooling up in garages all over the world is going to happen in a really big way. You see this in emerging companies like Masten Space Systems that started in a garage with a father and son team.

When you don’t have anyone telling you what to do and when to do it, guess what happens. You begin to collaborate by letting your mind think for real. Innovation happens when you decide to walk around the chair between you and your destination.

DougSpace - October 17, 2012

Hey Andrew. I came across the following article of yours on The Space Review a few years back. So for everyone else, here it is:

3. Jim Davis - October 17, 2012

This was a very enjoyable show, well above the usual open lines fare.

This is my take on the auditions:

1. John – interesting subject; not the greatest presentation. I would like to have him back as a full guest.

2. Doug – Spudis does it much better. Not sure I would tune in for a full show.

3. Andrew – good points, but rather far removed from the subject of space proper. I probably wouldn’t be interested in a full show.

4. Jeff – very interesting topic. I would tune in for a full show. He comes across as very condescending, however, like he’s addressing children.

5. Armen – interesting topic, very well presented although he seemed to take a while to come to the point. Would probably listen to a full show.

Andrew Tubbiolo - October 17, 2012

But Mr Davis all space programs, any space program comes from within the volume of space that a machine tool acts in. It is the fundamental building block of any space program. Think about it.

Jim Davis - October 17, 2012

Certainly, it does and it is. But it is “far removed” like I said. It would be sort of like a cooking show explaining how to plow a field to plant wheat, etc.

At least, that’s how I see it.

Andrew Tubbiolo - October 17, 2012

Hi Jim, I would see your point if payloads used common systems or subsystems. They don’t. So much of space even after 60 years is custom made and home spun. On every space mission I’ve participated on over the past 20 years it’s a constant short circuit to the machinist and technician. As a matter of fact the CubeSat community is the only flying community I have ever seen that actually makes use of common subsystems. We’re not in the baking loaves of bread at the wonder bread factory phase of space, we are still very much deciding which proverbial strain of wheat makes the best proverbial flour.

Jim Davis - October 18, 2012

Andrew, I can only speak for myself. While I would be interested in hearing of these space missions you’ve participated in over the past 20 years I’m not really interested in learning how to set up my own machine shop. I suspect that there are podcasts, youtube channels, etc devoted to that sort of thing since machine shops have a much wider utility than space.

But maybe that’s just me.

Andrew Tubbiolo - October 20, 2012

It’s allright Jim. Like most geeks I sometimes find it hard to imagine that someone thinks my enriching experience for them is boring and droll. 🙂

4. DougSpace - October 17, 2012

I wanted to respond to an emailed question that came in later from a listener.

He pointed out that it wasn’t just the “what and how” but the “why” which was important to clarify when it comes to setting up a cis-lunar infrastructure based upon lunar ice.

Good point.

I believe that the why is pretty straight forward but that such a plan actually addresses several whys.

Facilitate Robotic and Manned Missions – By providing lunar ice-derived fuel to LEO, interplanetary probes and manned craft could be fueled without having to launch bulky propellant from Earth’s deep gravity well.

Reduce Costs – In-space propellant means that smaller, more commercially useful launchers could launch just the dry craft, equipment, and people. This would help spread NASA’s costs to the market. Also, large communications satellites could be boosted to GEO using the fuel.

Expand Markets – Having less expensive fuel at LEO would help create the orbital servicing industry. Similarly, circumlunar and eventually lunar tourism would be enabled by the infrastructure. Finally, with lunar surface operations, platinum group asteroid impacts could conceivably be mined (such as Dennis Wingo proposes).

Setting the Stage for Settlement – The lunar landers would be proven out by delivering cargo (just like Dragon to the ISS). Telerobots would prep for a manned landing by establishing more than life-support quantities of water/oxygen. Distillation equipment would extract out the chemicals needed by plants. Excavators could dig out a regolith shelter and emplace a shielded inflatable habitat. Astronauts should be able to stay on the lunar surface for much longer than they currently stay on the ISS. This would either reduce the frequency, cost, and risk of manned launches or result in an expanding lunar base. In-orbit propellant would also enable manned trips to Mars.

There are other whys including science, inspiring kids, and national stature. But I view the above as the main ones.

Joe - October 17, 2012

Great response, Doug! You are onto something with the why’s.

For a successful sell, you must get past the why’s first. Not just tell them why but get them to nod their heads when you look them straight in the eye while you are explaining why. Don’t look at charts. Don’t look at the back of the room. Look them straight in the eyes and don’t blink. It makes all of the difference in the world.

You will eventually run into people that try to snipe your ideas like Romney does to Obama and visa-versa. Even Jim Davis above gave you a jab. Its not personal. It is how people who you haven’t gained your trust yet react to you trying to change their belief system (influence). I am sure you are well prepared for that but my advise is to bone up on the subject of influencing people by reading “Buy-In: Saving Your Good Idea from Getting Shot Down” by John P. Kotter. http://www.amazon.com/Buy-Saving-Your-Good-Getting/dp/1422157296

You need to be well prepared when the time comes to stare down the powerful buyers of your ideas. Another interesting read that has passed the test of time is: “How to LIcense Your Million Dollar Idea”. This is a bread and butter book on how to sell your ideas. It can be found at: http://www.amazon.com/License-Your-Million-Dollar-Idea/dp/1118022424/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1350526465&sr=1-1&keywords=how+to+sell+your+million+dollar+idea
Figuring out how to sell stuff is very difficult to do since it mainly involves usinng the psychological aspects of gaining someone’s trust. If you can sell a stranger your used car in 10 minutes, you can sell NASA your Cislunar ideas. You also need to hear from lots and lots of other people like me who think like you do and support your ideas so you can share and mold your ideas and pitches into gold nuggets that people want to buy even though they don’t need to buy them.

DougSpace - October 17, 2012

Thanks Joe, that’s good advice.

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