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Dr. John Jurist, Friday, 5-9-14 May 10, 2014

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Dr. John Jurist, Friday, 5-9-14

http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/2241-BWB-2014-05-09.mp3

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Guest:  Dr. John Jurist.  Topics: Space program related medical & biotechnical advances, spinoffs, human spaceflight.  Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com.  Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See http://www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm.  For those listening to archives using live365.com and rating the programs, please email me as to why you assign a specific rating to the show.  This will help me bring better programming to the audience.

We welcomed back Dr. John Jurist to discuss some space program related medical and biotechnical advancements to illustrate some of the benefits and importance of human spaceflight.  Listeners also asked him about radiation and one listener in particular answered my question as to why so many space advocates & enthusiasts dismiss the human factors when planning their versions of a humans to the Moon or Mars mission.  During the first segment of our 90 minute discussion, Dr. Jurist talked about the former astronaut Deke Slayton’s experience with NASA and spaceflight during NASA’s early days when it was discovered that Deke had atrial fibrillation (afib) regarding his heart rate.  Given that I’ve made it public that afib was the reason for my medical leave of absence plus I talked on air about my cardiac ablation procedure at UCSF Medical Center, it seemed appropriate for Dr. Jurist to open with that topic.  Dr. Jurist showed how Deke’s afib experience was in many ways, with NASA research, the root of biotechnology and patient monitoring, wireless monitoring, and even the early days of afib research.  He talked about early space and aviation companies making the monitoring devices for the patient & medical public though this is hardly ever mentioned when talking about NASA spinoffs.  Listeners and I asked lots of questions about these advancements coming from sources other than NASA had NASA not been around.  Would we have had them anyway and around the same time?  Don’t miss what Dr. Jurist had to say in response to this line of questioning.  Dr. Jurist also spoke about bone density issues and osteoporosis analysis and mitigation devices and drugs, many of which have been tested and used in space.  Also, aerospace companies made the initial hardware used for bone density analysis.  Other human factors issues came up and were discussed including vision problems such as a higher incidence of cataracts for astronauts, plus issues probably resulting from fluid shifts in the eye due to microgravity.  John talked about the use of ablation procedures throughout the medical profession and Holter Monitoring for cardiac issues.  He also noted that early bone monitoring was developed by lunar related companies.  Our guest was asked just how important the medical advancements are to HSF and he said very important but they have been undersold to policy makers and the public.  They are also complicated to explain and understand.  Radiation was discussed and turned out to be a significant part of the discussion in Part 2 of our program.  Toward the end of the segment, I asked why so many space enthusiasts seem to dismiss the human factors.  Fortunately, B.John in Sweden provided what I think was an excellent answer to the question which we took it up in the second segment.  However, his note said the following:  “About 500 humans have been to space. No increase of radiation related health effects have been observed. No one have died in space, only during starting and landing. And that’s because of technical malfunctions with catastrophic explosions. That’s why most listeners think that Dr. Jurist grotesquely over estimate the imagined hazards of space flight. There exists no data at all to support his pessimistic claims.”  While I disagree with his analysis and conclusions, I do think his reasoning is held by many and it does go a long way to explain why so often the human factors issues are dismissed by some in the greater advocacy community.  Before the segment ended, I asked John to talk about the April 4, 2014 presentation at Rocky Mtn College by Walt Cunningham. The video of Walt’s talk is on our Space Show Vimeo channel and the audio is now archived on our website and blog.

In the second segment, Dave Ketchledge called to speak to the radiation issue as Dave was part of the nuclear Navy and worked in the nuclear power plan industry for years.  He had much to say about the radiation risks that debunked B.John’s comments.  Both he and Dr. Jurist spoke to beta and alpha particles, some shielding material ideas, & changes in the radiation standards used by NASA.  Later, Dr. Jurist responded to a question about space being engineering driven with the medical issues not always receiving the top priority in architecture development and mission design. B.John sent us additional emails regarding radiation, supporting art. gravity, and suggesting why NASA does not want to do HSF.  Don’t miss our responses to B.John’s emails though I said again I thought his explanation to my initial question was on the mark.  In his summary, Dr. Jurist suggested the bio medical field received important benefits from our early and ongoing space program.  He also said going to Mars, the Moon, or an asteroid would most likely produce huge benefits and medical advancements, and that should be reason enough to have a robust human spaceflight program.

Please post comments/questions on The Space Show blog above.  You can reach Dr. Jurist through me.

Dr. Duane Graveline, Friday, 1-25-13 January 24, 2013

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Dr. Duane Graveline, Friday, 1-25-13

Co-Host Heather Archuletta

http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/1936-BWB-2013-01-25.mp3

Guests: Dr. Duane Graveline, Heather Archuletta.  Topics: Bed rest microgravity simulation studies. Dr. Graveline is the father of this research. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com.  Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information.  We welcomed Dr. Duane Graveline to the program to discuss bed rest simulation microgravity studies, the early days of pioneering of his having pioneered this research, aerospace medicine and much more in our 1 hour 23 minute discussion. Dr. Graveline is the father of this research dating back to the late 1950s.  Please visit his website, www.spacedoc.com.  Heather Archuletta, the Pillownaut Astronaut, returned to co-host with me for this important discussion.  Check out Heather’s blog posts about Dr. Graveline and his work at http://pillownaut.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-bed-pilot-pioneer.html.  Dr. Graveline has allowed us to use two specific pictures referring to his pioneering work and both are on The Space Show blog per the above URL.  Picture 1 is Dr. Graveline’s water immersion tank and Picture 2 is the LBNP device. He discusses both of these in the program’s first segment.  Dr. Graveline started out with an overview of his early work, how he got into the field, his decision to join the Air Force and why this area of medicine interested him.  He explained his early bed rest tests and talked about the challenges with the test subjects. Heather and Dr. Graveline compared those early tests to those of today that Heather has participated in.  It was a fascinating compare and contrast, especially regarding the discipline of test subjects then and now. Dr. Graveline talked about water immersion, the aerospace lab he used, and his water immersion tank.  Don’t forget to check out the picture of it on the blog.  Dr. Graveline is looking through the window at the floating test subject.  Would you like to float as Dr. Graveline explained for one full week nonstop?  Throughout our discussion, Dr. Graveline told us many interesting and sometimes funny stories from his past like his visit to the Today Show and their wanting him to wear “flippers!”  Our guest described the low body negative pressure device (LBNP) which you can see in the second photo on the blog.  He talked about it, the old Soviet program, Mir and tilt table tests.  Dr. Graveline talked extensively about the Soviet program, how he was able to monitor much of their data, & he told us about Alexi Leonov when he had serious problems when caught outside his spaceship.  Many questions were asked about early animal studies, Laika, and more.  He told us how they were able to do blood pressure readings on dogs & the Soviets bragged about it since Dr. Graveline was able to figure out, copy, & improve the Soviet system.  Mice and centrifuge studies were discussed in some detail & Heather and Dr. Graveline had comprehensive discussions about exercise in the bed rest studies of today as compared to none in the early days of the studies. Dr. Graveline talked with Heather about his idea to abandon exercise in space so the astronauts could concentrate on their work, then return in a hydropod and rehab completely back on Earth for a few months.  You don’t want to miss this discussion or explanation from Dr. Graveline as to why this approach should be considered and tested by NASA.

     In the second segment, we talked about bone density issues and the applicability of space research and findings to terrestrial medical issues for people with this medical problem.  He was asked about a long duration HSF to Mars and he said the bigger problem was galactic radiation which he talked about in some detail.  He said that as of today, there are no mitigation tools for this problem.  The discussion went back and forth about water immersion and the use of the hydropod for returning astronauts & Heather talked about prohibitive costs & that immersion is not used today.  One of our UK listeners asked Dr. Graveline about his being part of Group 4 – The Scientists.  As this was the first astronaut group that was not composed of test pilots, our listener wanted to know about the selection process & getting more scientists to the Moon & on missions.  Dr. Graveline had much to say about this subject & shared with us some terrific & historical stories from the past.  He talked about Spacelab, astronaut Bill Pogue, & shared science stories with us.  During our program, Heather, with her bed rest study experience & her recruiting work (listen to her Space Show program on the studies she has recent completed at http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/1926-BWB-2013-01-08.mp3 from Jan. 8, 2013), contributed greatly to the discussion and Dr. Graveline was equally interested in talking with her about the program today as compared to the program he started decades ago.  Dr. Graveline’s book, “From Laika With Love: Secret Soviet Gifts to Apollo,” is still available. If you order it from Amazon using this link, Amazon will make a contribution to The Space Show/OGLF:  http://www.amazon.com/From-Laika-With-Duane-Graveline/dp/1424338700/ref=onegiantlea20.  Dr. Graveline was also asked about the use of his research today and if young scientists & researchers interested in the field still study his early work.  He said yes and talked about how much easier it was to do that today due to the internet.

     If you have questions/ comments for Dr. Duane Graveline or Heather Archuletta, post them on The Space Show blog per the URL above.  If you want to email Dr. Graveline or Heather, you can do so through me.  You can also comment and contact Heather through her blog which is mentioned earlier in this summary.

Here are Dr. Graveline’s photos discussed above:

Graveline Immersion Tank

Graveline Immersion Tank

 

Graveline LBNP Device

Graveline LBNP Device

 

Heather Archuletta, Tuesday, 1-8-13 January 9, 2013

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Heather Archuletta, Tuesday, 1-8-13

http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/1926-BWB-2013-01-08.mp3

Guest: Heather Archuletta.  Topics:  NASA bed rest and simulation studies.  Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information.  We welcomed Heather Archuletta to the program to discuss her first hand experiences with three NASA bed rest studies plus her recruitment work for new NASA study applicants.  Heather is known as the Pillow Astronaut.  Check out her website at www.pillownaut.com and her blog at http://pillownaut.blogspot.com. Our discussion was divided into two segments but this summary will not reflect segments since many of the same themes and topics overlapped the two segments. I believe this to be a very informative and a very entertaining Space Show program offering a comprehensive and insiders view of a subject we have not covered in any detail on any of our programs in our broadcasting history. We started out with Heather explaining the bed rest simulation studies, the different kinds of studies, and the basic qualifications to participate in a study.  We talked about studies ranging from 24 days to 100 days.  Heather was terrific about explaining the protocols to us, what each day was like, what the food was like, the ongoing medical testing, the helpers that did practically everything for the participants, plus the type of recreation they had given they all had to remain in their beds in the position required by the specific study.  We talked extensively about the recreation from reading to movies, to being able to get fresh air outdoors, to using computers, webcams, and phones.  Heather also explained the personal and privacy issues all the participants had to comply with and experience.  If you embarrass easy, these studies are likely not for you.  Diet was a big part of the study and our guest explained how tightly controlled the diet was and how it was made to order for each participant.  In response to questions about the application and process, we learned about the medical and psychological screening, bone scans, etc.  There was also outreach to family, friends, and significant others as there were strict rules about visiting and of course applicants did not need opposition by those in their lives.  The goal of these studies, as you will hear, was to work toward developing counter measures for the effects of microgravity on bones.  Physical intervention techniques such as exercise were tested as well as chemical mitigation techniques depending on the nature of any given study.  Several listeners asked why the participants chose to do this.  One listener asked how Heather talked with the general public to get them to see that spaceflight was worthwhile.  Don’t miss this discussion, it’s a good one.  Making a difference and helping to pave the way for long duration human spaceflight were important reasons given by the participants for enduring the study constraints and protocols.  Heather went over the basic medical and physical requirements for being a participant and she talked about her getting others interested in the studies given her own experience with three studies.  She uses social media for outreach and also various conferences and speaking engagements.  Heather also told us about the pictures on her blog, including pictures of her doing the studies in her bed.  Scroll down on her blog for more information and the pictures. Also, there are journals on the blog regarding the day to day activity in the study.  We learned that reading was a favorite activity as was working on laptops.  When Heather was asked about pets coming to visit them with family members when visiting was possible, we learned that some of the participants kept fish with them in their rooms but no dogs, cats, or birds.  Later in the discussion, she talked about the use of smart pills in some of the studies.  She mentioned the founder of the bed rest studies, Dr. Duane Graveline and she told us how the bed rest  and water immersion studies came about. Heather also said that the term “sleep study” was incorrect as the participants were not there to sleep!  We learned that when the study ended, there was about a two week rehab period for the person to be able to function again.  Sometimes the participants could not drive for up to three weeks after the study ended.  Listeners asked Heather how accurate the simulations were compared to what the astronauts experienced on the ISS and the space shuttle.  As you will hear, these studies appear to be excellent analog studies to actual spaceflight.

  One additional point and that is we talked about the Whitehouse.gov petition on nuclear propulsion. For those of you interested in this petition, you can get information about it at http://cosmiclog.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/08/16385852-nuclear-power-in-space-petition-asks-white-house-to-rekindle-project.

     Please post your comments/questions on The Space Show blog.  You can email Heather through me or through her website and blog.

Drs. Adrian LeBlanc, Thomas Lang & John Jurist, Sunday, 5-6-12 May 6, 2012

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Drs. Adrian LeBlanc, Thomas Lang & John Jurist, Sunday, 5-6-12

NASA Bone Loss & Bisphosphonate Study

http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/1769-BWB-2012-05-06.mp3

Guests:  CLASSROOM:  Dr. Adrian LeBlanc, Dr. Tom Lang, Dr. John Jurist.  Topics:  Bone loss issues for human spaceflight & the use of bisphosphonates for mitigation.  You are invited to comment, ask questions, and discuss the Space Show program/guest(s) on the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com and The Space Show Classroom blog, http://spaceshowclassroom.wordpress.com.  Comments, questions, and any discussion must be relevant and applicable to Space Show programming. Transcripts of Space Show programs are not permitted without prior written consent from The Space Show (even if for personal use) & are a violation of the Space Show copyright.  In addition, at the end of this summary, you will find links to relevant papers for our discussion as provided us by Dr. Lang.  We welcomed Dr. Adrian LeBlanc, Dr. Tom Lang and Dr. John Jurist as co-host to discuss the NASA bisphosphonate and bone loss study in progress.  Dr. LeBlanc along with his associate in Japan, Dr. Toshio Matsumoto, are leading this study and Dr. Lang is part of the team.  We started our discussion with Dr. LeBlanc providing us with a brief historical overview of bone loss issues of concern to NASA since the early days of the space program.  We talked about Skylab, Mir, the use of the DEXA scan, the use of quantitative computer tomography (QTC) and CT scans through to the ISS, Space Shuttle, and current research projects.  Our discussion was technical at times so if you need to look up or Google a technical term, please do so. In addition, we had some audio issues with the phone line used by Dr. LeBlanc as he faded in and out from time to time.  We apologize for any inconvenience this might have caused.  The first segment went through the bone loss issues, problems, consequences, & the methodologies involved in analyzing the conditions encountered by the astronauts participating in these studies.  Issues we discussed included the use of prescription drugs in space, long term use of bisphosphonates, risk factors for spontaneous hip fractures, exercise programs, bone strength, bone mass, the impact of radiation, skeletal recovery back on Earth after spaceflight to something different than before the spaceflight took place as well as the implications for astronauts as they age.  We talked about using artificial gravity to mitigate bone loss.  You might be surprised to learn that using partial gravity may not help matters.  Bisphosphonates do seem to help and will possibly play a role with exercise as we move to long duration spaceflight but we are in the very early stages of fact finding on these issues.  We also discussed informed consent with the astronauts regarding their participation in these and other experiments.

In the second segment, a listener asked about the relevance of this type of space research to the taxpayer who funds it and to the general population.  Our three guests responded to this question, explaining why the research is relevant and important. Don’t miss their answers.  We then talked about following the astronauts here on Earth to see the continued impact of having been in space on their bones as they age.  We learned that bone changes after being in space for four weeks or more and it is important to follow these changes as part of the aging process.  Our guests talked about calcium excretion issues in space and the risk this causes for a renal stones.  Bisphosphonates may inhibit calcium excretion which would help mitigate this risk.  Near the end of our discussion, we learned about new medications being developed that are more advanced than the bisphosphonates we have today.  We also talked about the competition with astronauts for different scientific experiments.  As Dr. Jurist pointed out, we really do need lots more human spaceflight!  At the end a listener asked about bed rest studies and our guests provided us with the basics.  If you are interested, visit https://bedreststudy.jsc.nasa.gov.  Our guests made important closing comments and take away points.

Please post comments/questions on The Space Show and Classroom blogs.

Dr. Lang provided us with these links that will be of interest to us all.  These documents can be accessed without a subscription to the journals. These papers provide some background to the problem of bone loss in spaceflight, the recovery of bone after spaceflight and use of CT and the use of CT-based finite element modeling to assess bone loss.

Cortical and Trabecular Bone Mineral Loss From the Spine and Hip in Long-Duration Spaceflight http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1359/JBMR.040307/full

Adaptation of the Proximal Femur to Skeletal Reloading After Long-Duration Spaceflight http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1359/jbmr.060509/full

Reduction in proximal femoral strength due to long-duration spaceflight http://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl=en&user=0zFSO9sAAAAJ&cstart=20&citation_for_view=0zFSO9sAAAAJ:4DMP91E08xMC

Click on link on right “[PDF] from http://cof.org.cn ” for free pdf copy of the report.