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Dr. Erik Conway, Monday, 4-13-15 April 14, 2015

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Dr. Erik Conway

http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/2452-BWB-2015-04-13.mp3

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Guest:  Dr. Erik Conway.  Topics:  Dr. Conway’s book, “Exploration and Engineering: The Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the Quest for Mars”  & more.  Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com.  Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm.  For those listening to archives using live365.com and rating the programs, please email me as to why you assign a specific rating to the show. This will help me bring better programming to the audience.

We welcomed Dr. Erik Conway to the show to discuss his new book, “Exploration and Engineering: The Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the Quest for Mars,” JPL history, engineering, Mars missions, and much more all from the historical perspective.  In the first segment of our 1 hour 28 minute discussion, I asked Dr. Conway how JPL engineers did things that led to major Mars exploration breakthroughs.  He cited the Mars Pathfinder mission as an example and the decision to use airbags for the landing.  Dr. Conway took us through the process, the cost benefit analysis of the decision and the role played by budgets, the engineers, policy makers, and others contributing to the mission.  Our guest provided us with other examples as well from other Mars projects and missions.  Listeners asked our guest about human missions.  Here, Dr. Conway had much to say throughout our discussion focusing on the fact that humans are dirty with bacteria, planetary protection is a priority, and there is zero risk or near zero risk for a human mission.  When asked if the Moon required the same planetary protection policies as Mars, he said no though in the early days of lunar exploration, it did.  I asked our guest about the roles played by policy makers and engineers and this resulted is a very interesting discussion. Don’t miss it.  Listener Barbara in Seattle asked our guest about Curiosity cost overruns and how that would be reported on in history.  This led to a discussion about the impact of management and others on the initial design and budgets.  Later, Dr. Conway was asked why JPL had a focus on Mars in the first place.  Doug called in to ask about the humans vs. robot debate for science.  Don’t miss the response to this question by our guest.  Doug also brought up the issue of finding past or present life on Mars and what that might mean for future  Mars missions.  Dr. Conway agreed that probably all sides in the argument of avoiding Mars to avoid contaminating and disturbing life to the opposite perspective will be arguing the issues for a long time to come.  Dr. Conway addressed commercialization and while supporting reduced launch costs said the cost reduction needed to be magnitudes lower than even the lower costs of today.  Dwayne called and addressed planetary protection, then he turned his attention toward asking about the research opportunities at JPL for outside historical researchers.  Erik explained why these opportunities were limited, partly holding ITAR responsible.

In the second segment, Erik talked about the risk versus return on the costs.  He talked about there being almost zero tolerance for accidents and losses with Mars missions and human missions.  He also said the zero risk tolerance for these missions has been a significant cost driver.  Our guest had much to say on this subject with regards to Mars so don’t miss it as it covered most of the second segment. Later in this segment, Jake inquired about the early JPL history and its founders and their impact on the JPL of today.  Penny wanted to know about the Cal Tech-JPL relationship.  Dwayne sent in an email asking about the Faster, Better, Cheaper programs and what happened with the JPL programs using this approach.  This was an interesting way to wind up the show. As we were ending we learned that Goddard has no historian so their programs are not being recorded or document.  I sked Erik the difference in JPL and the APL.  Note how he explained the difference between the two labs, their risk tolerance, and decision process.

Please post your comments/questions on TSS blog above.  You can reach Dr. Conway through JPL or me.

Dr. Paul Spudis, Friday, 6-20-14 June 19, 2014

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Dr. Paul Spudis, Friday, 6-20-14

http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/2266-BWB-2014-06-20.mp3

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Guest:  Dr. Paul Spudis.  Topics:  Dr. Spudis provided us with an overview and analysis of the NRC “Pathways to Exploration: Rationales and Approaches for a U.S. Program of Human Space Exploration.”  Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com.  Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See http://www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm.  For those listening to archives using live365.com and rating the programs, please email me as to why you assign a specific rating to the show. This will help me bring better programming to the audience.

We welcomed back to the show Dr. Paul Spudis to discuss the NRC Human Spaceflight Study report recently released. You can download the report for free at http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=18801.  Please note that this program was broadcast and recorded live on Wednesday, June 18, 2014.  It is being archived on Friday, 6-20-24 as there will be no live show on Friday due to the host travel schedule.  During the first segment of our 1 hour 36 minute program, Dr. Spudis first walked us through the NRC nearly 300 page study, hitting the highlights, raising questions, talking about what was good in the report and disappointing in it.  We talked about the rational for human spaceflight, for Mars, also the Moon.  We noted the absence of economic development in the report and this gave Dr. Spudis several openings to talk about his ideas for cislunar economic development.  Listeners asked lots of email questions ranging from budget issues, to SpaceX and rocket reusability.  Paul described much of what the study suggested as a form of “Apollo to Mars.”  Near the end of this segment we talked about public/private partnerships and learned that the Pathways study was only addressing public programs.  A listener asked Dr. Spudis what he thought the impact of the study might be and sitting on a shelf somewhere seemed a plausible answer.

In the second segment, Dr. Spudis focused on the response to the report and ways to actually develop a quality space program.  He talked about the need for a space transportation system, space infrastructure, and to use an incremental approach.  Robotics were discussed, we talked about the space media, and Dr. Spudis reminded us a few times that if there is no infrastructure, there can be no institutional use and capability.  We also compared the Apollo period and JFK’s goal for the Moon compared to now.  Its an interesting discussion, especially since we no longer have many of the skill sets we had back then.  The value of the Moon and commercial space came up & we talked about promoting the value to policy makers.  In supporting his incremental approach, Paul referenced a bit of US naval history.

Please post your comments/questions on TSS blog.  Check out Paul’s blog, http://www.spudislunarresources.com.  You can contact Dr. Spudis through his blog or me.