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Chris Carberry, Sunday, 1-4-15 January 5, 2015

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Chris Carberry, Sunday, 1-4-15


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Guest:  Chris Carberry.  Topics:  Human spaceflight to Mars, Exploremars.org, Mars political advocacy.  Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com.  Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See http://www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm.  For those listening to archives using live365.com and rating the programs, please email me as to why you assign a specific rating to the show. This will help me bring better programming to the audience.  Please note that in the second segment there were two very noisy cell phone calls and we apologize for that. I believe the noise was outdoor wind noise at the callers location.

We welcomed back Chris Carberry, Executive Director of Explore Mars, to outline for us their Mars 2015 plans along with proposed political advocacy with the new Congress and upcoming 2016 presidential election.  In the first segment of our 96 minute discussion, Chris mentioned some of the highlight planned for Explore Mars for 2015 including their H2M Conference at GWU from May 5-7 plus he updated us on the ExoLance and their time capsule projects.  We talked about the political work needed and what Explore Mars was doing regarding this with the incoming congressional members and in preparing for the 2016 presidential race.  I asked Chris to tell how human spaceflight to Mars is presented to congressional members for the most impact and what the biggest objections were which he said focused on the budget.  He also suggested there was lots of political interest in human spaceflight to Mars.  Later we talked about Mars or the Moon, competing for funding and for priority status.  Marshall called with questions about needed energy for a human venture to Mars, focusing on either solar power or nuclear power.  The nuclear power part set up a more extensive discussion.  Chris responded to several emails about lunar water and should it be the Moon or Mars.  He was also asked about depots and their possible support of a humans to Mars mission.

In the second segment, Kirk called in for updates on ExoLance and he asked about a sustainable one way mission to Mars, particularly if public money was used for the mission. Chris thought we were far off from a publicly funded one way Martian mission.  Later, Chris talked about increased interest and talk about going to Mars and he mentioned several companies have plans for a humans to Mars mission.  Orion and SLS came up as well.  A 20 year time line was suggested for the Mars mission.  Toward the end of the discussion, Chris said their 2015 agenda was to continue focusing on building the Mars coalition, to start briefing presidential candidates in advance of the 2016 election, plus working with the new congress.  Toward the end of the show, Chris was asked about going to the moons of Mars instead of Mars.  Tim, our last caller, wanted to know about Red Dragon.

Please post your comments/questions on TSS blog above.  You can contact Chris through his website or me.

Dr. Duane Graveline, Friday, 1-25-13 January 24, 2013

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Dr. Duane Graveline, Friday, 1-25-13

Co-Host Heather Archuletta


Guests: Dr. Duane Graveline, Heather Archuletta.  Topics: Bed rest microgravity simulation studies. Dr. Graveline is the father of this research. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com.  Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information.  We welcomed Dr. Duane Graveline to the program to discuss bed rest simulation microgravity studies, the early days of pioneering of his having pioneered this research, aerospace medicine and much more in our 1 hour 23 minute discussion. Dr. Graveline is the father of this research dating back to the late 1950s.  Please visit his website, www.spacedoc.com.  Heather Archuletta, the Pillownaut Astronaut, returned to co-host with me for this important discussion.  Check out Heather’s blog posts about Dr. Graveline and his work at http://pillownaut.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-bed-pilot-pioneer.html.  Dr. Graveline has allowed us to use two specific pictures referring to his pioneering work and both are on The Space Show blog per the above URL.  Picture 1 is Dr. Graveline’s water immersion tank and Picture 2 is the LBNP device. He discusses both of these in the program’s first segment.  Dr. Graveline started out with an overview of his early work, how he got into the field, his decision to join the Air Force and why this area of medicine interested him.  He explained his early bed rest tests and talked about the challenges with the test subjects. Heather and Dr. Graveline compared those early tests to those of today that Heather has participated in.  It was a fascinating compare and contrast, especially regarding the discipline of test subjects then and now. Dr. Graveline talked about water immersion, the aerospace lab he used, and his water immersion tank.  Don’t forget to check out the picture of it on the blog.  Dr. Graveline is looking through the window at the floating test subject.  Would you like to float as Dr. Graveline explained for one full week nonstop?  Throughout our discussion, Dr. Graveline told us many interesting and sometimes funny stories from his past like his visit to the Today Show and their wanting him to wear “flippers!”  Our guest described the low body negative pressure device (LBNP) which you can see in the second photo on the blog.  He talked about it, the old Soviet program, Mir and tilt table tests.  Dr. Graveline talked extensively about the Soviet program, how he was able to monitor much of their data, & he told us about Alexi Leonov when he had serious problems when caught outside his spaceship.  Many questions were asked about early animal studies, Laika, and more.  He told us how they were able to do blood pressure readings on dogs & the Soviets bragged about it since Dr. Graveline was able to figure out, copy, & improve the Soviet system.  Mice and centrifuge studies were discussed in some detail & Heather and Dr. Graveline had comprehensive discussions about exercise in the bed rest studies of today as compared to none in the early days of the studies. Dr. Graveline talked with Heather about his idea to abandon exercise in space so the astronauts could concentrate on their work, then return in a hydropod and rehab completely back on Earth for a few months.  You don’t want to miss this discussion or explanation from Dr. Graveline as to why this approach should be considered and tested by NASA.

     In the second segment, we talked about bone density issues and the applicability of space research and findings to terrestrial medical issues for people with this medical problem.  He was asked about a long duration HSF to Mars and he said the bigger problem was galactic radiation which he talked about in some detail.  He said that as of today, there are no mitigation tools for this problem.  The discussion went back and forth about water immersion and the use of the hydropod for returning astronauts & Heather talked about prohibitive costs & that immersion is not used today.  One of our UK listeners asked Dr. Graveline about his being part of Group 4 – The Scientists.  As this was the first astronaut group that was not composed of test pilots, our listener wanted to know about the selection process & getting more scientists to the Moon & on missions.  Dr. Graveline had much to say about this subject & shared with us some terrific & historical stories from the past.  He talked about Spacelab, astronaut Bill Pogue, & shared science stories with us.  During our program, Heather, with her bed rest study experience & her recruiting work (listen to her Space Show program on the studies she has recent completed at http://archived.thespaceshow.com/shows/1926-BWB-2013-01-08.mp3 from Jan. 8, 2013), contributed greatly to the discussion and Dr. Graveline was equally interested in talking with her about the program today as compared to the program he started decades ago.  Dr. Graveline’s book, “From Laika With Love: Secret Soviet Gifts to Apollo,” is still available. If you order it from Amazon using this link, Amazon will make a contribution to The Space Show/OGLF:  http://www.amazon.com/From-Laika-With-Duane-Graveline/dp/1424338700/ref=onegiantlea20.  Dr. Graveline was also asked about the use of his research today and if young scientists & researchers interested in the field still study his early work.  He said yes and talked about how much easier it was to do that today due to the internet.

     If you have questions/ comments for Dr. Duane Graveline or Heather Archuletta, post them on The Space Show blog per the URL above.  If you want to email Dr. Graveline or Heather, you can do so through me.  You can also comment and contact Heather through her blog which is mentioned earlier in this summary.

Here are Dr. Graveline’s photos discussed above:

Graveline Immersion Tank

Graveline Immersion Tank


Graveline LBNP Device

Graveline LBNP Device


Michael Ciannilli, Leonard David, Tuesday, 7-17-12 July 17, 2012

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Michael Ciannilli, Leonard David, Tuesday, 7-17-12


Lessons Learned from the Columbia accident & NASA’s human spaceflight experience

Guests:  Michael Ciannilli, Leonard David.  Topics:  Columbia lessons learned & human spaceflight safety issues.  You are invited to comment, ask questions, and discuss the Space Show program/guest(s) on the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments, questions, and any discussion must be relevant and applicable to Space Show programming. Transcripts of Space Show programs are not permitted without prior written consent from The Space Show (even if for personal use) & are a violation of the Space Show copyright.  We welcomed Michael Ciannilli of NASA to the program to discuss lessons learned from the Columbia accident & NASA’s history of human spaceflight. Leonard David of Space.com returned as a co-host for this program.  Our nearly two hour no break discussion started with Michael providing us with an historical overview of the Columbia accident.  We talked about the debris retrieval process & the fact that about 38% of Columbia was retrieved.  Michael was asked about surprises & among the many he mentioned, one in particular dealt with the tile & thermal impact showing burning on the inside & how that was a clue to what happened to Columbia.  Michael then listed several lessons learned.  When I asked if he could prioritize the items he mentioned, he said they were all important.  We talked about the Columbia Accident Investigation Board (CAIB), return to flight, incorporating lessons learned, & more.  Leonard asked about the idea of NASA HSF safety excesses & we asked Michael if lessons learned & HSF safety issues were shared with both the private sector companies & the Russians.  I asked Michael about educational outreach & he had some interesting things to say about the international internet audience as well as the local audience.  The subject of urban legends came up in the outreach discussion & we honed in on the idea of the possibility of a rescue mission.  You do not want to miss this important discussion.  Other issues discussed included the foam problem, Leonard asked about the “bone matrix” he saw in use at the CAIB hearings, & I mentioned the need to really know & understand the hardware given our recent intimate visit with Endeavour.  Cultural issues were a part of this discussion, including the risk of workforce lulls & the need to avoid complacency.  Michael cited tile issues as an example going back to STS 1 and studying all missions to really understand tile concerns.  One email dealt with NASA risk aversion & some space enthusiasts saying that to open the space frontier we need to “kill more people.”  Michael addressed these issues, going over the NASA mission & imperatives, their responsibilities, and the risks of all sorts of consequences coming to life.  We talked about individual worker responsibility and accountability with Michael giving us both NASA and personal insights into this subject.  We then talked about the balancing act required in weighing the risk trades of cutting costs, cutting corners, taking more risks, taking less risks, etc.  He suggested private companies will go through a similar process and talked about the consequences of decisions which can be devastating with the loss of a crew to the termination of a program or the loss of the company.  Michael explained the Criticality One status and what it means in the risk analysis process.  Another listener asked if shuttles still had life left in them at the time of retirement. The short answer was yes but don’t miss what Michael has to say about the condition of space shuttle fleet at the time of retirement.  Another issue discussed dealt with trying to find a lower cost way of operating shuttle and dealing with all their infrastructure without compromising safety.  Near the end of the program, we took a Southern California call asking about potentially different standards for government astronauts and private-sector astronauts.  I was asked to lead off with my opinion which I did from a business liability perspective, then Michael and Leonard discussed the subject. We had lots to say about informed consent, litigation, & the uncertainties inherent when involved in a jury trial.  As we were winding down the program, Michael provided us with his closing comments, then I added in my own comments that focused on the sports inspirational speaker, Ray Lewis, linebacker with the Baltimore Ravens, who gives a terrific inspirational speech to teams around the country, “Pissed Off For Greatness.”  You can find lots of information about this by using Google for his name or the speech title.  Essentially, this is about not accepting mediocrity in what you do & I extrapolated it to space.  HSF workers, regardless of being with NASA or any company as well as others involved in the space field cannot accept mediocrity.  Being pissed off for greatness implies that if you are not pissed off for greatness, then you willing to settle for being mediocre in what you do.  Michael, Leonard and I talked about this at the end of the program.  I hope you will concur with me that extrapolating this inspirational sports talk to space fits.  Michael closed us out by saying it takes courage to stand up and say something if you believe something is off or not right in the program.  He further said it takes a lot to challenge the bureaucracy and stand up but that we all have to do it when the situation arises.

Please post your comments and questions on The Space Show blog URL above.  If you want to email Michael or Leonard, do so through me at drspace@thespaceshow.com and I will forward it to the person of your choice.